ja man wird sicher verstehen welcher der Gaeste ich bin bzw war
Den Buddhisten zufolge reinkarnieren wir uebrigens 22 Tage nach dem Tod, was ich eine schreckliche Vorstellung finde. Vielleicht hier noch ein Wort von Marcel Proust: 'In Wahrheit ist alles ganz anders'
Rilke und Reinkarnation
Hallo e. u.,
du hast natürlich recht mit dem Hinweis auf Rilkes Übersetzungshelferin A. Faehndrich. Ich bin einfach davon ausgegangen, dass jemand, der eine tiefgreifende Antipathie gegen ein Land hat, diese auch auf alle "Produkte" dieses Landes überträgt - das muss aber nicht so sein. Rilkes Browning-Versionen lassen zumindest davon nicht die geringste Spur erkennen.
Im Übrigen, Ulrich, bin ich der Meinung, dass man gerade, wenn man abwertende Behauptungen ins Forum stellt, auch zuerst die Zitate dazu zur Hand haben sollte. Wenn du nicht einmal mehr weißt, wo das steht, könntest du es ja auch falsch in Erinnerung haben, oder?
Viele Grüße
du hast natürlich recht mit dem Hinweis auf Rilkes Übersetzungshelferin A. Faehndrich. Ich bin einfach davon ausgegangen, dass jemand, der eine tiefgreifende Antipathie gegen ein Land hat, diese auch auf alle "Produkte" dieses Landes überträgt - das muss aber nicht so sein. Rilkes Browning-Versionen lassen zumindest davon nicht die geringste Spur erkennen.
Im Übrigen, Ulrich, bin ich der Meinung, dass man gerade, wenn man abwertende Behauptungen ins Forum stellt, auch zuerst die Zitate dazu zur Hand haben sollte. Wenn du nicht einmal mehr weißt, wo das steht, könntest du es ja auch falsch in Erinnerung haben, oder?
Viele Grüße
Hi Linda, where are you?
Please, don’t ask for a translation of my embarrassing “trial and error”-contributions yesterday! Do you remember where I wrote something about Rilke’s attitude towards America? I can’t find the right topic anymore. But don’t make any efforts to find it –just in case you still have it in mind you can remind me. There where some comments, as you might have seen on Rilke’s refusal in regard to anything English ( understood as “British”). But there wasn’t any proving quotation about this. Maybe “English” indeed is misinterpreted as “British”?! I know the “present Rilke” is still in a quite “conservative” distance to American culture as some remarks on this subject (about 12 years ago) revealed. He should get to know you, Linda! Then he would surely change his mind!!!
He also didn’t like anything Austrian:
Was mich ein wenig bekümmerte – es war das Einzige, worüber wir zuweilen stritten -, war seine heftige Abneigung gegen Wien und alles Österreichische, die sich seit dieser Militärzeit nur noch gesteigert hatte. (M. Taxis, Erinnerungen an RMR)
...und zum Thema Reinkarnation:
Im Grunde hielt er Russland für seine Seelenheimat, überzeugt, daß er einmal in einer früheren Inkarnation in Moskau gelebt habe. (a.a.O.)
Liebe Grüße
Please, don’t ask for a translation of my embarrassing “trial and error”-contributions yesterday! Do you remember where I wrote something about Rilke’s attitude towards America? I can’t find the right topic anymore. But don’t make any efforts to find it –just in case you still have it in mind you can remind me. There where some comments, as you might have seen on Rilke’s refusal in regard to anything English ( understood as “British”). But there wasn’t any proving quotation about this. Maybe “English” indeed is misinterpreted as “British”?! I know the “present Rilke” is still in a quite “conservative” distance to American culture as some remarks on this subject (about 12 years ago) revealed. He should get to know you, Linda! Then he would surely change his mind!!!
He also didn’t like anything Austrian:
Was mich ein wenig bekümmerte – es war das Einzige, worüber wir zuweilen stritten -, war seine heftige Abneigung gegen Wien und alles Österreichische, die sich seit dieser Militärzeit nur noch gesteigert hatte. (M. Taxis, Erinnerungen an RMR)
...und zum Thema Reinkarnation:
Im Grunde hielt er Russland für seine Seelenheimat, überzeugt, daß er einmal in einer früheren Inkarnation in Moskau gelebt habe. (a.a.O.)
Liebe Grüße
Hi Marie,
I have read everything posted under this topic, but because I don't speak German all that well, as always, there was much that I didn't understand. Also, the last couple of days I have been very wrapped up in my latest project -- trying to set up my own web page and trying to figure out how to post pictures here in the forum. I have all but given up now in frustration and disappointment.
I do vaguely remember you mentioning something about Rilke and his attitude towards America, but we have written so much, that I have no idea where to look. In all honesty, some people might not understand this, but it really doesn't matter to me how Rilke felt about England or America. I love his wonderful poetry and prose regardless!! Yes, he had his faults perhaps, but who among us doesn't. And it is not unusual for someone to have a negative attitude about another country. I find that people usually have a lot of misconceptions about other countries and the people of those countries. The fact is, you truly must live in a country before you can really know how things are. And even then, one must be careful not to stereotype. When we think of other countries and it's people, especially in some negative regard, we tend to think that the "whole" country is that way or all of it's people are some particular negative way, but in reality, we are all different, and you will find wonderful people in every country, and along with them some that are not so wonderful!! Fortunately, today we have the opportunity to meet people from all over the world and to affirm this philosophy.
So, I don't take any of this serious. I lived in Germany for 8 years of my life, and it was a totally different culture from America, but I loved it. Of course there were things that were different or struck me as strange, but in all, I absolutely loved it, and had Rilke ever experienced America, I believe he too would have come to love it. I know many, many Germans who have settled here, and they all love it (not that they don't miss some things back home!), but this is all unimportant. Rilke lived in his own time and had his own opinions, and we must accept him for who he was. He was a wonderful artist, who was undoubtedly a bit eccentric to say the least, but if he didn't like England or America, what of it? I can still enjoy reading his poetry, and I still stand in awe of his amazing work! But then again, I am a true Rilke Fan at heart! And you are right, Marie -- I believe I could have convinced him otherwise perhaps! (At any rate, I sure would like to have tried!)
Liebe Grüße,
Linda
I have read everything posted under this topic, but because I don't speak German all that well, as always, there was much that I didn't understand. Also, the last couple of days I have been very wrapped up in my latest project -- trying to set up my own web page and trying to figure out how to post pictures here in the forum. I have all but given up now in frustration and disappointment.
I do vaguely remember you mentioning something about Rilke and his attitude towards America, but we have written so much, that I have no idea where to look. In all honesty, some people might not understand this, but it really doesn't matter to me how Rilke felt about England or America. I love his wonderful poetry and prose regardless!! Yes, he had his faults perhaps, but who among us doesn't. And it is not unusual for someone to have a negative attitude about another country. I find that people usually have a lot of misconceptions about other countries and the people of those countries. The fact is, you truly must live in a country before you can really know how things are. And even then, one must be careful not to stereotype. When we think of other countries and it's people, especially in some negative regard, we tend to think that the "whole" country is that way or all of it's people are some particular negative way, but in reality, we are all different, and you will find wonderful people in every country, and along with them some that are not so wonderful!! Fortunately, today we have the opportunity to meet people from all over the world and to affirm this philosophy.
So, I don't take any of this serious. I lived in Germany for 8 years of my life, and it was a totally different culture from America, but I loved it. Of course there were things that were different or struck me as strange, but in all, I absolutely loved it, and had Rilke ever experienced America, I believe he too would have come to love it. I know many, many Germans who have settled here, and they all love it (not that they don't miss some things back home!), but this is all unimportant. Rilke lived in his own time and had his own opinions, and we must accept him for who he was. He was a wonderful artist, who was undoubtedly a bit eccentric to say the least, but if he didn't like England or America, what of it? I can still enjoy reading his poetry, and I still stand in awe of his amazing work! But then again, I am a true Rilke Fan at heart! And you are right, Marie -- I believe I could have convinced him otherwise perhaps! (At any rate, I sure would like to have tried!)
Liebe Grüße,
Linda
One other thing I forgot to mention, I didn't know the story behind Rilke's translation of the Browning poems when I posted them, but nonetheless, and regardless of what help he may have had in the process, I still find that he did a marvelous job! In fact, I almost like the German translation better than the English . . . perhaps that is because I was a German in another life? Remember I mentioned to you once that I had that feeling while living in Germany. The way I loved the cobblestone streets, the old houses, the sidewalk cafes, the vineyards, the towers, and the castles - the feeling I got when walking down the streets. . . it was as if it were all a memory of days past rather than a new experience!
Liebe Grüße,
Linda
Liebe Grüße,
Linda
Er war wirklich nicht zu bewegen, nach England zu reisen. Ich will mich bemuehen diese Stellen in einer der Bios zu finden. Eines seiner franzoesischen Gedichte ist uebrigens vom Portrait einer englischen (Stummfilm) Schauspielerin inspiriert, das er in einem franz. Magazin fand, und ja, die Browning Gedichte, und dies und das, natuerlich meinte ich das nicht so radikal wie ich das formuliert habe, oder eher komisch ueberzeichnet habe (englischer Humor). Es wertet Rilke doch nicht 'ab' - bitte nicht immer gleich boese Absicht und Motive vermuten.
Ganz viele Menschen koennen in bestimmte Laender nicht reisen. Owohl ich so einige Menschen aus Spanien kenne und liebe und schon als Kind um mich hatte, und ein grosses Spektrum spanischer Kultur verehre, hatte ich lange Zeit Probleme, die Sprache staendig um mich zu haben oder dorthin fahren zu wollen. In einer Rueckfuehrung kamen dementsprehend heftige Sachen nach oben, die im Zusammenhang mit der Hexenverfolgung stehen. Und meiner Meinung nach war es bei Rilke und vielen anderen Beispielen eine aehnliche Sache. Natuerlich koennte ich einen Besuch des Landes aushalten und es reizt mich auch in vieler Hinsicht aber dennoch spuere ich in mir etwas, das sich immer noch ein wenig straeubt, denn das Trauma war einfach zu groß und die Rueckfuehrung liegt erst ein Jahr zurureck (wie bei der Familienaufstellung dauert die heilende Bewegung ja bis zu zwei Jahre).
Ob es mein eigenes Trauma ist oder ob ich in der astralen Welt mich sehr mit jemandem identifiziert habe, bleibt dahin gestellt. Wichtig ist, alle Angst und allen Schmerz in diesem Leben zu ueberwinden, durch selbstlose Liebe und Liebe auch fuer uns selbst.
Ebenso ist es mit der Anziehungskraft gewisser Laender, und manchmal ist die so groß, daß eine unsichtbare Hand nach dir greift und dich dorthin zieht. Rilke zog es nach Frankreich und in die franzoesische Schweiz. Rußland war eher eine mystisch-ideelle Liebe, und er war sich der Realitaet Rußlands (abseits vom eher touristischen Bilde, daß er mit Lou auf ihrer Reise genoß) auch bewußt. So gehen wir alle unsere Wege in der Hoffnung, Frieden zu finden und unser Schicksal zu erfuellen.
Linda, you are right: it doesn't matter.
Ganz viele Menschen koennen in bestimmte Laender nicht reisen. Owohl ich so einige Menschen aus Spanien kenne und liebe und schon als Kind um mich hatte, und ein grosses Spektrum spanischer Kultur verehre, hatte ich lange Zeit Probleme, die Sprache staendig um mich zu haben oder dorthin fahren zu wollen. In einer Rueckfuehrung kamen dementsprehend heftige Sachen nach oben, die im Zusammenhang mit der Hexenverfolgung stehen. Und meiner Meinung nach war es bei Rilke und vielen anderen Beispielen eine aehnliche Sache. Natuerlich koennte ich einen Besuch des Landes aushalten und es reizt mich auch in vieler Hinsicht aber dennoch spuere ich in mir etwas, das sich immer noch ein wenig straeubt, denn das Trauma war einfach zu groß und die Rueckfuehrung liegt erst ein Jahr zurureck (wie bei der Familienaufstellung dauert die heilende Bewegung ja bis zu zwei Jahre).
Ob es mein eigenes Trauma ist oder ob ich in der astralen Welt mich sehr mit jemandem identifiziert habe, bleibt dahin gestellt. Wichtig ist, alle Angst und allen Schmerz in diesem Leben zu ueberwinden, durch selbstlose Liebe und Liebe auch fuer uns selbst.
Ebenso ist es mit der Anziehungskraft gewisser Laender, und manchmal ist die so groß, daß eine unsichtbare Hand nach dir greift und dich dorthin zieht. Rilke zog es nach Frankreich und in die franzoesische Schweiz. Rußland war eher eine mystisch-ideelle Liebe, und er war sich der Realitaet Rußlands (abseits vom eher touristischen Bilde, daß er mit Lou auf ihrer Reise genoß) auch bewußt. So gehen wir alle unsere Wege in der Hoffnung, Frieden zu finden und unser Schicksal zu erfuellen.
Linda, you are right: it doesn't matter.
' The immense hazard and the immense blindness of the world are
only an illusion to him who believes. '
--Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
only an illusion to him who believes. '
--Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Hi Linda,
I feel exactly the same about the Browning poems - in a way he made them his own creation by translating very freely. His style is recognizable, I think.
I agree, of course, to what you said about his dislike to other countries. It's not important and doesen't make a difference. I admire him endlessly but not blindly in regard to faults he made like anybody else. It's just a great interest in everything concerning him and his poetry. His attitude towards Great Britain or America is just one single point of it all, but it was mentioned in another contribution and that's why I've asked about it. In Rilke's case it was always easy to me to get into understanding rather than judging. If you love somebody that's no question at all!
Liebe Grüße
I feel exactly the same about the Browning poems - in a way he made them his own creation by translating very freely. His style is recognizable, I think.
I agree, of course, to what you said about his dislike to other countries. It's not important and doesen't make a difference. I admire him endlessly but not blindly in regard to faults he made like anybody else. It's just a great interest in everything concerning him and his poetry. His attitude towards Great Britain or America is just one single point of it all, but it was mentioned in another contribution and that's why I've asked about it. In Rilke's case it was always easy to me to get into understanding rather than judging. If you love somebody that's no question at all!
Liebe Grüße