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Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan »

Hi Volker,

Would you like for me to send you a couple more of my favorite poems in English, or would you like to have some time to digest the first one? If so, just let me know when you're ready for more.

What did you think about the Cliff Crego comment about poetry in other languages?

Liebe Grüße,

Linda :lol:
Marie
Beiträge: 308
Registriert: 9. Mär 2003, 21:27
Wohnort: rhld.-pfalz

Beitrag von Marie »

Hi Linda,

This then is the place where the poem
has brought us, the place where all language ends...

I really do appreciate to this! And that's the reason why I love the Elegies so much: Rilke reached the upper limit of what is able to be expressed in a language and leads the reader as near to the unspeakable as possible by using poetry. It's like standing on the top of the mountain, having your feet still on the ground. (Not the stand out way philosophy or mysticism often work it out) That's what I thought of when I used the metaphor "bridge across worlds".

Viele Grüße M.
Gast

Beitrag von Gast »

Strange! I'm sure that I wrote "Rilke reached the upper limit..." I can't explain why it changed to "I"? :shock: I've read it several times before I posted it.

M.
Gast

Beitrag von Gast »

I probably better go to bed now! The page was reduced in its width so only the beginning line of the "R" of "Rilke" appeared as an "I" - very embarrassing!
Volker, I order at least 3 further "giftgrüne Anti-Smilies" for this one!

M. :lol:
Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan »

Hi again Volker and Marie,

I was wondering if either of you are familiar with any of Rilke's French poems?

This is one of my favorites, and it seems to go along with "Du im voraus verlorne Geliebte" and "An die Erwartete."

Die, die nicht gekommen ist, war sie nicht trotzdem
gut darin, mein Herz zu ordnen and zu schmücken?
Wenn man existieren müßte, um diejenige zu sein,
die man liebt, worin wäre ein Herz (dann) Schöpfer?

Schönes Glück, weiß gelassen, du bist vielleicht
der Mittelpunkt aller meiner Mühen und Lieben.
Wenn ich so viel geweint habe, dann weil ich dich
bevorzugt habe unter so vielem anderen konturierten Glück.

What do you think of this as an English translation? Is it at least close? It is not mine exclusively. It is my version of a translation by the author A. Poulin, Jr.

Is there perhaps a better choice of words for "Mühe" - dictionary choices were:

trouble, pains, toil, labor, effort, exertion, difficulty

I considered using "efforts," "pains" or "troubles" instead but decided to go with "labors." Which choice do you think would be best?

I also thought there might be a better word for "gut" but couldn't decide which if any. Any thoughts there?

One last thing. I am looking for a book in German with all of Rilke's poems from 1906 bis 1926 including all of the Nachlaß. There was a book entitled:

GEDICHTE 1906 BIS 1926: Sammlung der Verstreuten und Nachgelassenen Gedichte aus den Mittlern und Späteren Jahren (Insel-Verlag,) but I didn't find it at Amazon.de which is the only place I know to find German books online.

I recently ordered "Rainer Maria Rilke - Die Gedichte" and was disappointed to find that it doesn't have many of the poems from the Nachlaß. I am now considering ordering either "Sämtliche Werke, 7 Bde, Ln, Bd. 2, Gedichte" or "Werke - Kommentierte Ausgabe, 4 Bde, Bnd 2, Gedichte 1910 - 1926" in hopes that they will have every available poem from 1906 on. Any recommendations?

Liebe Grüße,

Linda
Marie
Beiträge: 308
Registriert: 9. Mär 2003, 21:27
Wohnort: rhld.-pfalz

Beitrag von Marie »

Hi Linda,

I'm too tired to give you a detailed response now. Could you just tell us where to find this poem in the original? I was to lazy to find it out on my own. Is it a German translation of an English translation of a French original? The words don't seem to be very Rilke-like.

Viele Grüße M.
Benutzeravatar
Volker
Beiträge: 200
Registriert: 8. Mär 2003, 12:39
Wohnort: Freie Hansestadt Bremen

Answer

Beitrag von Volker »

Hi Linda,
Thank you for the peom and the wonderful words of Cliff Crego. For the moment, just a short answer:
You wrote
Would you like for me to send you a couple more of my favorite poems in English, or would you like to have some time to digest the first one? If so, just let me know when you're ready for more.
I would appreciate if you could send me some poems, if you have time. There is no need to hurry, though.
I' suggest you send it as a personal message to me as a forum-member rather than posting it in the Rilke forum itself. I will be informed about the arrival whenever I log in.

Once again, thank you so much. Especially Cliff Crego's words really touched me.

One more thing re ordering books:
If you want to be sure to have all poems then it has to say "Sämtliche Werke" not just "Werke".
The same goes for "Sammlung" - it would have to say "Vollständige Sammlung" or anything similar. Otherwise it's just as collection, but not a complete one. :?
Ich hab' auch Verstand.©
gez. Volker
Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan »

Hi Volker and Marie

I'll see what I can come with in the way of poems tomorrow, Volker. Were you able to understand "The Road Not Taken?"

The french poem above is from the book "Rilke Werke Kommentierte Ausgabe in vier Bänden - Supplementband Gedichte in französischer Sprache mit Prosübertragungen." It is a translation of one of the poems that Rilke wrote in French translated into German. I also have the same book in English, so I included the English translation for you as well. Rilke wrote a very large number of poems in French, mostly towards the end of his life I believe, and many of them are quite good, but of course you always lose something in the translation as well as the rhyme and rhythm.

Lieber Grüße,

Linda
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Volker
Beiträge: 200
Registriert: 8. Mär 2003, 12:39
Wohnort: Freie Hansestadt Bremen

Homework done

Beitrag von Volker »

Good morning, Linda! :D

Yes, Madame, I did my homework, I did understand "The road not taken".
Here is my proof :wink::

Die nicht gegangene Straße

Im Wald zwei Straßen waren zu sehn
Doch leider konnt' ich nicht beide gehn
Als einsamer Wandrer lange ich stand
Und schaute die eine so weit entlang
Bis da wo sie abbog im Unterholz.

Dann nahm ich die andere, gerade so schön
Die hatte vielleicht ein besseres Anrecht
Denn sie war frisch im Gras und wollte benutzt werden
Obwohl, was das anging, das Gehen dort
Hatte beide wirklich ungefähr gleich abgenutzt.

Und beide lagen an diesem Morgen ebenbürtig
in Blättern, die kein Schritt schwarz getrampelt hatte.
Oh, ich sparte mir die erste für einen anderen Tag!
Doch wissend, wie ein Weg zum anderen führt
zweifelte ich, ob ich jemals zurückkommen würde.

Ich werde dies mit einem Seufzer sagen
Irgendwann in fernen Zeiten von jetzt:
Zwei Straßen liefen auseinander im Wald
Und ich, ich nahm die weniger Begangene,
Und das hat den ganzen Unterschied ausgemacht.

I tried to use rhythm and rhyme. But that was really very difficult indeed.
I managed do do it only for the first verse. Anyway, the most important thing is to understand the meaning, isn't it.

The meaning behind the words?
Well, I think the poet wanted to express the feeling anybody can have when he or she is confronted with a decision: There are two choices, what do I do, do I take this way or that way. Ulysses at the cross-roads, so to speak.
Later on, after having made up one's mind, one might start thinking twice: What if I had taken the other one. Or maybe I can take the other one later. But then it will be too late, because in the meantime, the first decision has led to consequences I cannot revoke.
(OK, just a few thoughts on a nice Sunday morning. Now I'll go into my garden and speak with the flowers. :wink: :lol: :P
Ich hab' auch Verstand.©
gez. Volker
Rilke Fan
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: 8. Apr 2003, 18:56
Wohnort: Texas, USA

Beitrag von Rilke Fan »

Hi Volker,

This is really an excellent translation! I'm impressed! Your comments are also right on target. In addition to what you said, I think there is also the feeling that the choice made in this decision was perhaps not the most popular choice nor the choice that others might have made (the less traveled road), but taking that chance made all the difference!

I'm very happy to have this poem in German. Thank you so much, and keep up the good work! I'll send you another challenge with Frost later this evening when I have a chance to decide on one from so many.

I haven't had a chance to attempt to translate the poems you sent yet. It will definitely take some time, but I think it's mostly a matter of looking up the words. With Rilke, even once I look up the words, I'm often not sure what he was trying to say.

Grüß!

Linda :lol:
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